From ucivax!orion.oac.uci.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!metlay Fri Sep 13 09:18:34 PDT 1991 Article: 21523 of rec.music.synth Path: ucivax!orion.oac.uci.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!metlay From: metlay+@cs.cmu.edu (Mike Metlay) Newsgroups: rec.music.synth Subject: Re: disasterous innovation Summary: Whoa-- bad generalization here. Message-ID: <1991Sep06.223759.285082@cs.cmu.edu> Date: 6 Sep 91 22:37:59 GMT References: Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon Lines: 75 Nntp-Posting-Host: organ.music.cs.cmu.edu In article MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET writes: >>From: JROSSI@EAGLE.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL >>There is an industry wide understanding that 'new and different' just doesn't >>sell well enough to rationalize the R&D dollars. > >But then how does one explain the success of the Yamaha DX7? Has the market >changed so much since then? >John McIntyre Of COURSE the market has changed since then, you silly old analog ARP collecting physicist sort of person! We're living in a digital wasteland right now BECAUSE the market has changed, and the DX7 is WHY it changed. Cast your mind back to 1983, when the DX7 was introduced. What was there on the market back then? Analog synths, organs, Rhodes pianos, and string machines... unless you had the megabucks for a PPG, Emulator (Mk I), CMI or Synclavier. And that was IT. That meant that if you were a home player or a gigging musician, you needed (literally!) a TON of gear to get any sort of breadth in your sounds. Either that, or a ton of cash. Peter Gabriel and Tangerine Dream and K*te B*sh, among others, were wowing the public with the first uses of digital gear that nobody else could afford-- those sounds were becoming "needed" for hit records, and no one could buy them or carry them around. There was (relatively) cheap analog synthesis, and that was about it... you still needed, bare MINIMUM, a seventy-pound electric or electronic piano to go with it. Yamaha had had a lot of the R&D DONE for them already by Chowning-- they just had to design the user interface and the case. Given that, of course it paid off to build the DX7. It was, from any sane standpoint, no risk at all. In a flash, the market changed. There was the DX7, and Everything Else. And people jumped into the fray to try to do "digital" sounding stuff without getting sued by Yamaha for infringement, and a lot of R&D money went into that gaping maw with nary a complaint-- the alternative was corporate suicide. Some, like Casio and Ensoniq, invented cheap and workable alternatives to FM; others, like Seiko, got their scrota shot off. Years went by. PPG's basic idea (not wavetables themselves, but deeper than that--digital waves rather than oscillators) got made cheap by Korg and got slapped on an analog front-end-- bang zoom, the DW-8000, still the best synth any Japanese company ever released since the CS80. And some bright boy watched RAM prices falling and samplers going unused, and said, "Well, if people don't wanna sample and memory is cheap and a few digital waves aren't enough-- why not just pick the samples FOR them? If they sound good enough, the machine will sell." And the M1 sold, and is still selling. And so is the Proteus, and the U20, and the SQ1, and the DPM3, and the 1000PX, and the . The DX7 was not a risk, because the niche of a "different" instrument was one that would alleviate transport problems, tuning problems, mechanical problems, variety problems, and cost problems for an entire generation of keyboardists. Well, guess what: those problems are gone forever, and the only new ground a "different" instrument can break is timbral in nature-- and nobody gives a shit about that. I submit to you that every REAL breakthrough (from a commercial standpoint) in the past five years has been from a product that has put more stuff in a smaller space: the M1, the D-50, the Proteus. The newest workstations are the penultimate step: everything in one box. Nothing new, just everything you need. (The ultimate step would be to have it all work properly, but I've bashed on Ensoniq enough this week....|-> ) So your question is moot. The DX7 addressed a REAL need on the music market. Things that make interesting noises don't address any financially significant needs at all. Buy your MicroWaves and Xpanders and WaveStations while you can get them, gang... in a few years we'll be back in the 1970s, where people had to build modular synths in their basements to get sounds that were different from the glut of organs, electric pianos and string machines that were gagging the market.... -- metlay | The good news is that he desires nothing xpander-loving old curmudgeon | more for his music 'rep' than a cameo in | SAVAGE HENRY COMICS. metlay@organ.music.cs.cmu.edu | The bad news is, he's likely to make it. From noiro.acs.uci.edu!network.ucsd.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!frmop11!dearn!esoc!estec!atoni Wed Jun 10 16:55:17 PDT 1992 Article: 35463 of rec.music.synth Path: noiro.acs.uci.edu!network.ucsd.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!frmop11!dearn!esoc!estec!atoni From: ATONI@ESTEC.BITNET Newsgroups: rec.music.synth Subject: -- Synthesizers History (The 60's) -- Message-ID: <92156.185316ATONI@ESTEC.BITNET> Date: 4 Jun 92 17:53:16 GMT Lines: 77 Organisation: European Space Technology Centre (E.S.T.E.C) Hy The main idea of my posting is to have a series of reference for synths of all time .. It would be actually very good if anybody can write a small review about some of the most interesting machine I'll mention. The reference point of my posting is the very good German magazine "KEY" that in number Jan/Feb 1992 did publish a good reference tables of synths history from 1954 till 1991. The text is mainly the same but I did add some notes always in brackets when I put sometingh personal !!.. Prices are all in DM So enjoy .. here we are : 1954: Hammond B-3 C-3 etc till 1974 DM 7000 1963 Buchla Modularsynthesizer including Analog sequencer different model and series 300,500,200 400 included 406, Touchle 1964Mellotron Mark The first "Analog-sampler" magnetics tape player, different version and names Birotron (R.Wakeman Tormato) Novaton, till 1970 DM 10000 (I wish I can get one !!!! Maybe one day !). 1965 Fender Rhodes 88 Suitcase till 1985 E-Piano under DM 2000 , version 73 Stage Piano 1967 Moog IIIc First commercial synth module different versions of modular 12,15,35, 55, etc from 100000 DM till 10000 with analog sequencer In 1980 DM 2990 1969 EMS Synthi VCS3 (The Putney) on the market only in 1969 (Even if I contact EMS in England .. yes they do still exist .. and the VCS3 or SYNTHIA are still available for exotic prices 500 600 English pounds .. well maybe one day !!!) Analog synth with flexible matrix modulation (hardwired of course) different models SYNTHIA with suitcase , Logik-Synthesizer , from DM 2500 to DM 5500 EMS SYNTH1 100 Big analog modular system DM 64000 1970 Moog Minimoog till 1981 real Analog synth legend from DM 10000 till DM 2800 ARP 2600 till 1981 lengend mono-duophonic Analog synth from DM 13000 to DM 6800 ARP 2500 big analog modular system price ~30000 USA $ SYnlab (Berlin) big analog modular system (Never heard of .. any comments ??) 1971 Honher Clavinet till 1985 legend (Funk-Music) electric Cembalo 1972 ARP Odissey till 1981 legend analog monophonic Analog synth from DM 6000 till DM 1990 Well next time the following 70's .. If you want to add, comment, review any one of the above you are certainly welcome to send me any infos you want I'm willing to collect all of them and to offer them as public domain maybe in the ucsd or louie. See you soon ..(sorry for the bad editing !!!)) CIAO Andrea TONI From noiro.acs.uci.edu!network.ucsd.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!frmop11!dearn!esoc!estec!atoni Wed Jun 10 17:10:30 PDT 1992 Article: 35531 of rec.music.synth Path: noiro.acs.uci.edu!network.ucsd.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!frmop11!dearn!esoc!estec!atoni From: ATONI@ESTEC.BITNET Newsgroups: rec.music.synth Subject: -- Synthesizer history 70's -- Message-ID: <92157.162150ATONI@ESTEC.BITNET> Date: 5 Jun 92 15:21:50 GMT Lines: 135 Organisation: European Space Technology Centre (E.S.T.E.C) Hy Here we are again with the rest : 1973 RMI Keyboard Computer KC-1 till 1977 digital (additive) .... (Can anyone comment ?? ) EMU Modular Synth 4060 Keyboard big modular analog synth till 1974 16 voice polyphony Keyboard with integrated Digital synth ~1500 USA $ 1974 ARP Anaolog Sequencer 1601 till 1981 Oberheim DS-2 till 1977 first digital mono sequencer (44 steps) Oberheim SEM-1 monophonic analog synth or expansion synth module till 1980 DM 1350 1975 Oberheim 4 voices Poly synth till 1980 first poly synth Analog Pro-stimme version based on SEM-1 modules from 2/6/8 voices till 1976 and programmable till 1980 The four voice version DM 9650 1976 Moog Polymoog till 1980 Fully polyAnalog synth DM 9000 PPG 1003 Sonic Carrier duophonic first fully digital synth ROLAND TR55/66/77 till 1979 Drum computer with preset and analog sounds DM 780 1977 RMI Keyboard Computer KG-II till 1982 .. updated version of the KC from 1973 DM 20000 Roland System 100 till 1979 Modular Analog system DM 5430 (.. Huff I'm missed one of these best last year for just 350 $ !!!!) Oberheim OB1A till 1981 first fully programmable analog monosynth DM3100 Yamaha CS-80 till 1980 first Analog polysynth with weighted keys and polyphonic aftertouch (.. please do listen Eddie Jobson's UK first album and Zinc .. and then rush to buy one of those .. if your back and your cat can cope with it .. and you have E.Jobson handy at home !!) Smaller version CS-60/50 .. DM 16000 (80) 7000 (60) 4200 (50) Roland MC-8 till 1980 first track oriented digital sequencer DM 13000 Sequential Circuits Model 700 till 1982 externe memory for Analog mono-synth 1798 ROLAND VP330 till 1982 Vocoder with keyboard DM 3300 Hohner Clavinet/Pianet Duo till 1984 Clavinet plus electric piano Moog Multimoog till 1981 mono Analog synth with aftertouch DM 2200 Sequential Circuit Prophet 5 till 1985 (!) first fully programmable analog polysynth several updates (God favourite analog synth !!) DM 13500 DM 8500 KORG MS10/MS20/MS50/SQ10/VC10 till 1982 affordable studio semi modular analog synth DM 1500 2500 (MS10 1 VCO 2.5 oct kbd MS20 2 VCO 3 oct key and ext signal processor V-toF MS50 1 VCO modular no kbd VC10 mic driven vocoder I think mono) KORG PS3100/3200/3300 till 1981 fully poly Analog Modular synth (3200 separate kbd and 16 memory 3300 3100 module x 3 .. it was the time when KORG was a great company !!! I wish I could have one of those beasts !!) Electronic Dream Planet Wasp and SPider till 1981 analog monosynth with soft touch kbd (In 1983 I almost get a WASP in my head during a Bauhaus concert when Peter Murphy decided that he had enough of the screaming synth ..!!! What a concert by the way !!!!) Roland Jupiter 4 poly analog synth with memory DM 4000 PPG Wavecomputer 360 till 1980 complete digital Wavetable Pre Wave- series !! DM 10000 Moog Micromoog till 1981 monosynth fat bass sounding DM 2000 Yamaha CP70/70B/80 till 1987 mechanical electrical piano with update till MIDI DM 16700 (I remember Peter Gabriel in 1981 live, he spend 50% of the concerts playng this "toy", it was the III album tour) 1979 Roland CR78 Till 1981 first programmable Drum cmputer analog sounds DM 1500 (Go and listen Anthony Phillip1984 for a nice demo of the CR78) ROLAND System 100M till 1984 Unique Modular Analog synth till 4 voices poly DM 5000 Oberheim OB-X poly Analog synth 4/6/8 voices with memory (OB replay to the Prophet 5) DM 9650 Yamaha CS5/15/150 Till 1983 (=DX7!) monophone Analog synth DM from 895 Yamaha CS20M/40M mono-duophone Analog synth with memory DM 2975 3990 Fairlight CMI till now with different updates 16 bit etc first commercial audio sampler 8 bit with sequencer (Anybody know the first record with Farlight ??? ) Synclavier II till now EM synthesis , 16 bit sampling , Sequencer updatyes for digital recording system (seq till 16 tracks harddisk etc) That's all for now folks.. till the next time .. with the unforgettable 80's Ciao ANdrea TONI